Thursday, September 26, 2013

Bill Upton, President Of Vulcan Steel Products in Pelham, Admits To Affair With Woman Who Called Him "Daddy"



Bill Upton, of Vulcan Steel Products
The president of an Alabama steel company had an extramarital affair with a young woman he and his wife had raised as their daughter, according to court records in Jefferson County.

William D. "Bill" Upton Jr. is president of Vulcan Steel Products, which is based in the Birmingham suburb of Pelham. Upton sued his wife, Linda S. Upton, for divorce in 2010 and received a stunningly favorable judgment, even though he admits in court papers to having an affair with a young woman who had called him "daddy" for years.

Bill Upton might not have technically committed incest, but his actions come close to meeting the description. When I contacted Upton yesterday and requested an interview, he said only that the Upton v. Upton case had been handled properly and quickly hung up.

Gincie Walker had grown up in an abusive home in Shelby County before settling into the Upton family when she was in her mid to late teens. Linda and Bill Upton have one biological son and had adopted or fostered a number of special-needs children over about a 20-year period. Court records state that Gincie Walker has multiple-personality disorder, and she was in her mid to late 20s when the affair with Bill Upton started; she now is in her early 30s.

The Uptons never officially adopted Walker, but they parented her throughout adolescence and well into early adulthood. Sources state that she was treated as, and seen as, the Uptons' daughter.

Court records describe Bill Upton as a multimllionaire, and the family home is in the exclusive Shook Hill Road section of Mountain Brook. In addition to his clout in the business community, Bill Upton also has ties to the conservative religious community. He once was a member of Briarwood Presbyterian Church and was active in the Pro-Life movement.

A review of public records indicate that Bill Upton's admitted affair with Gincie Walker was the precipitating event that broke up the Upton marriage. But Bill Upton initiated the divorce case, and despite flagrant marital misconduct. he received a largely favorable judgment in a Jefferson County domestic-relations court that has been riddled for years with what has come to be known as "hunting club corruption."

How bad was the outcome for Linda Upton? She lost custody of all her children. She is being forced to sell the marital residence on Shook Hill Road. She's had to sell a vacation home. Most of the maintenance and insurance expenses for the homes landed on her. She received little in marital assets, almost nothing from land and business assets that she and her parents had helped build and manage.

We have reported on a number of Alabama divorce cases that produced outlandish results, usually with wives and children coming away the "losers," with wealthy, connected husbands walking away as "winners." 

That certainly was the case in Rollins v. Rollins, where Birmingham resident Sherry Carroll Rollins and her two daughters wound up on food stamps because of an unlawful judgment from Shelby County Circuit Judge D. Al Crowson. The husband in that case, Campus Crest Communities CEO Ted Rollins, comes from one of the wealthiest families in the country (the folks behind Orkin Pest Control) and owns multiple private jets. For good measure, his company has received some $800 million in Wall Street support. How much does Ted Rollins pay in child support for two children? It's $815 a  month, plus $500 in alimony.

It also was the case in Wyatt v. Wyatt, where Clanton resident Bonnie Cahalane wound up in jail for five months last year for failure to pay a property-related debt in a divorce case. Chilton County Circuit Judge Sibley Reynolds ordered Ms. Cahalane's imprisonment and also ordered the sale of her house--even though black-letter Alabama law forbids both actions. Harold Wyatt, who was the opposing party, is not particularly wealthy. But Bonnie Cahalane's previous husband is Bobby Knox, president of Shelby Concrete and one of the wealthier individuals in Chilton County. Did Bobby Knox help engineer a cheat job against his ex wife, out of spite, that caused her to land in jail--and to lose her home? Our reporting strongly suggests the answer is yes.

Upton v. Upton is disturbing on multiple levels. The case originally was assigned to Judge Dorothea Batiste, but attorneys from both sides agreed to have it heard by a private judge. Gary Pate, who was retired at the time from the Jefferson County bench, issued the  judgment in one of the first cases heard under the Alabama Private Judge Act, passed in 2012. Scott Vowell, then presiding judge in Jefferson County, signed off on moving the case to Pate--and Vowell later led the charge to file complaints against Batiste, resulting in her three-month suspension from the bench.

In another oddity, the case file was sealed, without Linda Upton's knowledge or consent. In fact, at one point, Upton v. Upton disappeared from public files altogether, with no record that it had even taken place. The case currently is on appeal before the Alabama Court of Civil Appeals.

I've described the facts and the outcome of Upton to several individuals who are familiar with Alabama divorce law. The response has been an across-the-board expression of disbelief.

We long have described Rollins v. Rollins as the most flagrant cheat job we've encountered in a civil court case. It looks like Upton v. Upton might turn that into a close race.


(To be continued)

64 comments:

Anonymous said...

Carrie Dann, Western Shoshone Grandmother said the Indians in the Six Tribes gave their 'Constitution' to the 'Ango-Saxons' and the Anglos took out the equality for women. Women in the Indian Tribes were very significant in the power of thinking.

George Washington and Thomas Jefferson both married 'rich' women. Both men had to spend a lot of time managing their 'estates of slaves'. The first name of the first 'White House' was Martha and George Washington's and it wasn't in DC. It was a plantation overflowing with slaves.

Where are we in 2013?

Gender bent beyond recognition in far too many - especially the 'judicial' and this has caused a serious degeneration in the 'thinking' because the endocrine is a powerful system in the human being. Do we think for a moment in our right minds, the intention to destroy the potential greatest experiment of freedom on earth has been an accident?

The US Constitution needs to be addressed in the inequalities now that we have the www transparency.

These 'men' in Alabama have gotten away with the murder of truth, justice and certainly the immorality of vitiated contracts glares in every face of all women in the USA.

STINK. Call them what they are as Hitler was also labeled for his hatred of humanity.

"Extramarital Affair" with a child that has been obviously made in the head other than 'normal'. Now that is truly predatory immoral and beyond = deep into the genuine psycho. Interview the devil and the details are always the same.

Anonymous said...

"... Black Americans have sold their souls just to see people who look like them commit the acts of evil which were previously reserved for white people. The penultimate example of this phenomenon is Barack Obama, the president of the United States. His ascension was the death of black politics, common sense and morality ...."

SPOILED ROTTEN WHITE MEN have allowed the chemistry of brain dead to think for them for far too long. Getting away with stealing fortunes from others - beginning with the Rockefeller crime family, inbred with Abby Aldrich ROCKEFELLER who was used as a 'beard' too, and BROOD MARE 'pedigree' but nothing but, disposable commodities, 'women'. And then children are to be preyed upon as though nothing but, disposable flesh too. Except in the cases of offspring like Willie Rockefeller (Clinton) from the SOUTH, to cement the practices of WHITE SUPREMACISTS.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/wilson-goode-barack-obama-and-the-good-negro/5351523


btw: love your 'avant garde' LS

Anonymous said...

News and money were monopolized or call the act of fascism capitalism.

Capitalism was thought to be the answer for all the humans on earth that thought they could own all the planet and every natural resource that is appearing in the universe at all times.

Money commodity got agreed upon as the contract to trade and exchange whatever the human imagination could 'dream'.

News got to be owned by the same families, Timothy Geithner is very clear in his interview about his investing in bonds - nope he's into news and his children too.

The news is the media or call our information to be able to think as humans with real brains, the news.

Money was and is the real corker though. The monopoly of money was the true greatest immorality ever.

For the JUSTICES in the USA to not be able to fix the immorality of 'money monopoly' proves the impotency factor: no real law.

There's no 'modern thinking nation state collective of people', who can't figure out the exchanging of a contract for trade of the necessities of life and then the luxuries, too.

But, in America we get the WHITE SUPREMACISTS that Karl Rove is definitely butt buddies with them and the South sees Turd Blossom in all the growing cesspool of Roaches In Robes. Do they all do one another to keep the secret do shake in tact forever and ever?

Money sovereignty can cure the entire disease of insatiable greed because when the contract isn't a monopoly then there is true diversity and this is what really scares the Supremacists that have caused truly immorality globally for far too long.

POWER and the more RAW, the better. That's the 'juice', these criminally insane pretend American businessmen white supremacist psychos insatiably lust after.

Anonymous said...

The saying: "Whose your Daddy?" Said among people incarcerated.

I'm a woman and I'm an artist, but don't call me a woman artist.

Georgia O'Keeffe. Georgia was exploited by Stieglitz, in NYC

http://www.pbase.com/image/61504767

So when she had had enough she moved to New Mexico, 'Ghost Ranch'. She took in a younger man who taught her how to throw the most beautiful pottery (Juan). People tried to get her committed, but of course her estate was being eyed.

Money has gotten to be quite an item of immorality. No longer do wars need to be fought for money, computers manufacture the stuff.

What we have are insane humans that want to exploit their own families and the sickness began ?

The job of the journalist is the job we have to have to be able to solve these societal problems.

Digging deeper and deeper Murph and the Alabamians awake to Carpi Diem are building the coalition of the brave enough to think morality isn't a dead ghost after all.

Thank you for the button too, gotta make certain the real news gets into the enlightened brains so when the 10% happens, there's only forward to the 51%. We're almost there -as Bush said about his Global Terror War- HOWEVER, we are in reality consciousness. AND, he wasn't on first base ever let alone a home run. Toxic imaging the GOP forced onto US for way too many years, and now the rot passed on to the DEM cult gets a new name for the practices of 'Our Daddy'.

Marilyn Monroe was also an exploited MKUltra, got 'suicided' as the usual suspects do when no longer able to be fully abused.

Get mad and get even, the best revenge is a dish served cold. Become a woman and an artist, but not a woman artist. Make the imagination you know is moral dissolve in an alchemy of power to be no more immorality.

File papers upon papers to the top people in the system who have to be also at this time doing their best, to get the due process moral back into the rule of law.

Best of luck in this, fight with all the might of a pack of the best working dogs on the planet.

Robby Scott Hill said...

There is a reason why Lenin advocated for state-ownership of factories & large companies. Private ownership is not always best for the Workers, especially when the owners get divorced. Just ask Joe Torre & the 2010 Los Angeles Dodgers, the 2001 Atlanta Braves or the 1530 English Soccer Team. Divorce is a bitch.

Anonymous said...

I remember reading an article several years ago, back in 2004, I think it was. It was a Press-Register story in Mobile about a guy who got out of prison sentence for sleeping with his daughter.

The first night out of prison he got a hotel room and slept with his daughter again.

He was of course, arrested.

Unbeknownst to the cops, the dad married the daughter before he did it, thinking that would somehow make it okay.

The one quote that haunts me to this day, was the mother saying, "I told her she was stupid for marrying her daddy!"

Sometimes, with respect to Alabama politics and its hypocritical, unsavory pols, I feel as helpless as this roll tide mom.

ttowntruthseeker said...

Alabama has the cheapest "cheat jobs" around. It's great place for a rich man to file for a divorce.

Anonymous said...

Sadly this sort of thing is a common and concistant ocurrance in US Family Court. I admire her bravery! Most moms are scared to come forward. Many of these mom's are losing custody after reporting their very young children have been sexually asaulted by the father. This is part a corrupt court scandal that to me far out weighs LIBOR! You cant place a price on a childs life!

Anonymous said...

What a perv! Taking advantage of a mentally ill child who had been through hell already and she called him DADDY! Wtf? This judge is pimping out special needs kids? His family must be proud! Wonder how many kids this judge has molested?

Anonymous said...

Talk about a rigged case! DAMN

Anonymous said...

By this sounds like a lot of $ was involved in this case!! So much so that getting Batiste out of the way was worth something. This is common when a favorable outcome for crooks is not possible with the assigned judge. Batiste maybe wasnt willing to pass it along. Smells of high dollar amount up for grabs! Or maybe those involved just didnt want Batiste getting any cash!

ttowntruthseeker said...

If you are rich enough to screw your adopted daughter with impunity you are probably just like members of The Machine who can screw voters in Tuscaloosa without repercussions. Or Republicans who want to shut down the government to make political gains. It's called "entitlement." When people complain about "entitlements" they should look at the real "entitlements."

Anonymous said...

In you post today you refer to, "what has come to be known as hunting club corruption". A few days ago a reader raised the issue about an "Alabama Machine" operating from out of Montgomery via Birmingham into Washington.

While partially true, as presented, that statement would have been better said if having had included the entirety of major "Alabama Machine" players;

for example, from south Alabama, Mobile, where Siegelman was denied his re-election, Pryor sealed election boxes denying a recount; southeast Dothan/Ozark, most recently casino gambling, previously, entangled in high stakes multi-states sports betting.

True Montgomery should be feared by the public when one is attempting to stand up against the gatekeeper thing described as a

"CTHULHU",

with squid like head and long tentacles with eagle like talons;
Priding itself on preying upon the weak, invading people's dreams.

That hunting club is only an extension, a TENTACLE, of statewide spread political, judicial, enforcement corruptions
that moves and operates without limitations; concerns, worries, fears, of recalls or impeachments.

The "Little People" will continue to sit/stand along the sidelines mute, eyes closed, ears covered until this state's nation's government has ceased to exist as we have known it to have been many ago past years; and then wonder what happened?

David in S. Alabama said...

Where have all commenters gone, long time away......

legalschnauzer said...

David:

In the post yesterday about the new look of Legal Schnauzer, I noted that I probably will be a little slow on comment moderation for a while. I'm still working on a number of technical issues related to the transition, so that is causing the delay. As always, we encourage folks to comment, and I will get them up ASAP.

Anonymous said...

Good God, this might be worse than the Rollins case. The evidence in that case seems strong that Ted Rollins molested Sherry Rollins son. And there is no doubt that Ted Rollins physically abused the son. But to have sex with a girl who calls you "daddy," who everyone considers to be your daughter? And the guy admits it in court? Man, that is off the charts.

Anonymous said...

Bill Upton's ties to Briarwood Presbyterian Church are intriguing, to be sure. I've always found something creepy about the pious "Christians" who go there but then vote lockstep with the GOP on everything, as if they don't give a rip about the poor and less fortunate.

Anonymous said...

I assume Bill Upton was having sex with the daughter at the home on Shook Hill Rd.?

Got to be impressed with those "famil values."

legalschnauzer said...

Based on my research, that appears to be the case, @2:00.

Anonymous said...

I bet I know the abusive Shelby County family that Gincie Walker came from. They, too, had ties to Briarwood. What a horrible situation.

Anonymous said...

I know the Upton family fairly well. I had heard something was going on, but I didn't know it was this bad. Hard to believe Bill Upton could do this.

Anonymous said...

This is one of the most disturbing stories I've ever read.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
David in S. Alabama said...

The fact that Bill Upton goes to Briarwood Presbyterian Church is a key to understanding his sexual deviancy. The congregation has long practiced the blessing of the sin of its members due to their belief that they all predestined and foreordained to sin. That being the case they all seem to wallow in it.

Anonymous said...

Wrong - yes
Sick - yes
Illegal - no
Two consenting adults, she isn't his daughter, legal or otherwise.

legalschnauzer said...

Just to be clear, nothing in the post suggests that this is a criminal matter. It's a key component in a divorce case, a civil matter.

Anonymous said...

So is it now only considered illegal to molest or rape someone else's child? It appears that if you grow your own that its perfectly alright and encouraged by being rewarded with custody.

Anonymous said...

3:21 are you fn serious????? First off they raised this girl since she was 11! 2nd, she's mentally ill! 3rd, if she also said the affair started in her mid 20's, should that claim be believable considering it was probably coached by Upton saying he would go to prison if she didnt say it started in her 20's!!! Children who grow up in abusive situations often times attach to their abuser....stockholm syndrome they call it! Ted Rollins has a victim that protects him as well!

3:21 are you condoning sex with children as long as they arent a blood relative?

This man willingly, knowingly took advantage of a special needs, mentally ill child! Not only is what this man more than likely (truly) did illegal, hes still a predator and a deviant slimeball who should be castrated!

I think there is a law against taking advantage of the mentally ill or special needs individuals.

Furthermore, what the hell kind of example is this Upton fool setting for his other children? He did receive custody of them all!

Anonymous said...

3:21PM no where was there reporting about consenting adults.

There was a child with special needs and there is an adult now with far more special needs do to the child getting Daddy for a very confusing relationship indeed.

Anonymous said...

How on earth did this man get custody of children? How many children are there, LS?

legalschnauzer said...

I believe there are 4-5 adopted/fostered children, all with special needs. All are in Bill Upton's custody, per an order from Jefferson County Judge Gary Pate.

Former presiding judge Scott Vowell signed off on this case going before Pate, being taken away from Dorothea Batiste.

Anonymous said...

Can a mentally ill young woman, who has multiple personality disorder, consent to sex, especially with someone she calls "daddy"?

God, what a horrible story.

Anonymous said...

Multiple personality disorder is an extremely serious condition. I would love to learn more about this young woman and what has happened to her. Look forward to your upcoming reports. If a millionaire businessman took advantage of her . . . well, there should be an extra warm spot in hell for Mr. Upton.

legalschnauzer said...

My understanding is that Gincie Walker has 31 diagnosed personalities. I further understand that she is extremely bright--her biological father is a physician--but she has major problems with judgment and impulse issues. Ms. Walker has two biological children of her own. I believe the Uptons adopted one of them and fostered the other. The court record indicates sexual abuse of at least one of the Walker children.

Anonymous said...

Im seeing a pattern of sexual deviance pervading the Land of Dixie!

Anonymous said...

Bill Upton engaged in an extramarital affair with a young woman who was essentially his daughter, and yet, he sued his wife for divorce.

This guy must have gigantic balls--or he's mentally ill.

Anonymous said...

Fluoride in the water causes a lot of problems. The other chemicals in the water and air and food, cause lots of problems.

Obviously the problems in the south aren't isolated.

The problem has been no one having the courage to get into the dirt with the mud people and get filthy enough to print the stuff.

Only mighty big spirits go into hell and come back out with the acceptance of 'whole truth', and then to write words about the experience - serving humanity - Alabamians don't have to go to hell to get the lesson of this horror that must be seen-heard and stopped, Lord Have Mercy!

Anonymous said...

4:41PM we're all mental. the poisons in all our natural resources are an intentional weapon to make us all mental - varying degrees of mental mark the stronger or weaker 'minds'. Have to examine the self very carefully to ascertain the mental illness and then be into self love enough to cure the imbalance.

the hiccup in the mental is the mental that can't ascertain how mentally ill the individual is, well those are the true humanitarian crises in what hs been forced as engineering the homo-sapiens.

Anonymous said...

There needs to be a massive federal investigation of Alabama divorce courts. This stuff is sickening. You've got special-needs kids being taken away from the woman who raised them. Unreal.

legalschnauzer said...

BTW, the Uptons have four adopted children and an older biological son who recently got married. All four of the adopted kids went to Bill Upton, even though he mostly was gone on business during their upbringing, and they were raised almost totally by Linda Upton.

Anonymous said...

Welcome to the NEW WORLD ORDER aka Fascist USA! This is not isolated! This is happening in every state of the union! Thank the Neocons and Neolibs for this FATHERHOOD INITIATIVE! Obama mentioned his backing of this fascist initiative in his State of the Union speech! They have USA fooled into believing its a good thing! Its not! Pedofiles and abusers are getting custody everyday because of this sick initiative which is funded by the Department of Health and Human Services, the same dept bringing you the Affordable Care Act aka Obamacare! This is case is an example of the intended outcome! People need to wake up! These judges need to go down in flames! NOW!

Anonymous said...

An old adage about destroying an individual's life, soon or later, "women, gambling, and whiskey".

But, comparing the society that we live in today, there should be another joint together area attached to three.

That should be government/
perversions.

Anonymous said...

http://www.ibtimes.com/woody-allen-soon-yi-previn-still-going-strong-20-years-after-mia-farrow-scandal-photo-754205 This story is still remembered as one of the most scandalous in Hollywood. I still remember hearing about it.

I'm sorry to hear this. Bill comes from good stock. His parents are noble, truly generous people.

Anonymous said...

I didn't think it was possible to make Ted Rollins look good . . . but Bill Upton almost does it.

Anonymous said...

Im about to hurl! This sick sob makes me want to lose my lunch, breakfast and dinner!

Anonymous said...

so sad. Alabama is truly a scary place.

I always wondered about holy roller types. Dad always said run if they asked if you are a Christian.

Anonymous said...

anon@6:50 Dave Upton sr. far from good stock, he, rumor has it, liked the younger ones, male and female, kin or not. Thats the rumor

As for how low these rich boys will go......
another Mt. Brook man, lets call him D. H Sr. has loaned Mr. W.D.U Jr. his personal spy hes been using for his own wife, to the Upton Jr. to "watch" the ex-wife,
and knowin how these club guys are, hope nutin happens to her

Anonymous said...

@5:37AM

Great post, thank you.

The court system is the gulag, Stalin was the mentor for US now and the countries of China and Russia have been in on our 'take-down'.

Can't have an America when the other countries have dark ages.

IT was a well planned event, the New World Order. Problem is, as always, too many in the USA were experimented on and so the WIPE OUT was to take all the BUBBLES and the LIEWYER one is the BIG BONANZA with all the corrupt on file to blackmail exactly as has been well planned.

Make the people poisoned beyond able to think, and we get the same climate as the other failed nation states and it was and is MONEY.

Fraudulent money.

The "NWO" is to keep the families that have been vile evil in power to farm humans forever.

Zacherydtaylor said...

I never thought to much about the claims about "kissing cousins" in the south was more than a stereotype but recently after reviewing a lot of crimes at Wal-Mart nation-wide I noticed that there seem to be a lot of flashers attempting to feel up girls or photograph them, sometimes up their skirts, in Florida Wal-Marts and most of the other sexual related incidents also seem to be in the south. Now I'm not so sure.

This might be related to authoritarian tactics of raising children especially if the most powerful people are involved in it.

The fish rots from the head down.

Anonymous said...

Some of the people's comments on this thread are weird and confusing...be clear, get to your point and quit trying to impress with your philosphical deep thinking, it makes you look crazy...

Anonymous said...

Bill Upton is a good person. The BLOG by the "legal schnauzer" is incorrect in many areas.

legalschnauzer said...

Incorrect? How so, @1:27?

Anonymous said...

1:27
Since when does a "good person" have sex with their mentally ill daughter who calls him "Daddy"?

Anonymous said...

I suspect one becomes classified as a "good person" by going to the right church.

Anonymous said...

@anon 10:17 I'm anon 6:50. You say that rumor has it that Dave Upton, Bill's dad, has "liked the younger ones, male and female, kin or not." Where did this information come from?

I can think of nothing that would please me more than the members of the "Hunting Club" being outed. Completely. Totally. What's behind the children being sold in Jefferson County Domestic Relations and Family Courts? Money. Sex.

Unknown said...

Anonymous said...

Some of the people's comments on this thread are weird and confusing...be clear, get to your point and quit trying to impress with your philosphical deep thinking, it makes you look crazy...

PHILOSOPHICAL do a spell check, it's not at all impressive to not when spelling is a critical point

September 27, 2013 at 10:35 AM

1. yes, you sound coo coo

2. and whatever gets written about psycho-babbling good this and that and church: distraction

3. the post is about the truth in corruption: in a word, duh

4. corruption isn't just the south, it's epidemic and the intention was intentional: inbreeding has been around since the earth started birthing life

5. crazy is when the truth is oppressed, suppressed, repressed and depressed for YEARS and via the so called 'good' or worse, the S.M.A.R.T. of the village idiots

Anonymous said...

Excuse me...but you get my point...

Anonymous said...

yep...someone is sounding crazy again...what's with people from Alabama? Is it because they feel inferior to other people so they try to compensate by trying to sound intelligent...save yourselves and move to another state and see how cray cray you really sound...

Anonymous said...

After watching Bravo TV's new show, Jersey Belle, just realized the connection. Bill Upton's son William is featured. His fiance Arden on the show is worried about if his mother will attend her bridal tea. I wonder if the show will feature Bill and his daughter...I mean wife..

Anonymous said...

Disgusting....all of it. What an f'd up guy and court system. Hard to imagine that in this day and age...

Anonymous said...

All the polish and veneer is stripped from the Upton family based on Mr Upton's debased, sexually inappropriate & entitled conduct. How appaling and equally the judicial misconduct conveys volumes on their personal behavior. As a Criminal Behavior Analyst, how probable these judges are engaging in, or keep hidden, their sexual deviancy and devlaue their spouses who are disposable positions with a wanton disregard for the emotional, psychological, and mental cruelty they perpertrate and inflict in wrecking lives. Not all psychopaths are confined in a prison. Image, pride, power and control course through their lives. High octane emotions will override reasoning and thus increases the propensity for violence. These ole boys may do well to remember they too must sometimes sleep, and for some, a permanent one - that does not make them a "victim," but rather the product of victim preciprocated violence !

Anonymous said...

Thanks a lot Legal Schnauzer for all these fascinating reports.

Anonymous said...

To visitors: The Uptons didn't live up to your fantasy? This is real life. No need to be vindictive by calling out one's gender, race or religion.

legalschnauzer said...

You're welcome, @8:33.