Wednesday, December 27, 2017

Brutal beating of Troy, Alabama, teen KeAndre Wilkerson could land cops in federal prison for 10 years to life, with possibility of a death sentence


KeAndre Wilkerson

A state investigation is under way to determine if police in Troy, Alabama, used excessive force in arresting teenager KeAndre Wilkerson over the Christmas weekend. Is an investigation really needed? Look at Wilkerson's face, post arrest, in the photograph above. If that's not excessive force, what is?

Many details still are not known about the Wilkerson incident, but this question likely is on many minds: What could happen to the cops who administered this brutal beating? They certainly could face state charges, likely for assault, but they also could face federal civil-rights charges, which might place each of them in prison for 10 years or more.

Has the level of police violence in the United States reached epidemic proportions? Has it become a major public-health problem, on par with the opioid crisis? As a blogger, I know the "ink was barely dry" on my Dec. 21 post about the cop beating of a Michigan woman named Tiffany McNeil when word came of the Wilkerson beating in Alabama. You can click on this link to remind yourself what McNeil's face looked like after an encounter with cops. McNeil's face looks bad, but Wilkerson's face looks worse. I doubt friends and family can even recognize him.

As grim as the Wilkerson case is, it does produce some dark comedy. Consider this lede on a story from al.com:

Following a Christmas weekend incident in which a Troy teen was seriously injured, police officials are asking the state to investigate whether their alleged use of force was justified.

Gee, fellas, you really think it's possible such force was justified? How many lies are the cops likely to tell in an effort to get themselves off the hook?

What led to Wilkerson's brutal encounter with cops? This is from al.com:

According to a report from WSFA, police say a 17-year-old was seen walking behind a business in the city's downtown area late Saturday evening, around 11 p.m.

Officers exited their patrol vehicles to engage with the teenager when he began to flee on foot, reports say. Once the teenager was apprehended, police allege he failed to cooperate with officers' requests.

Police say the juvenile reached for his waistband, as if to go for a weapon, prompting physical force.

The teen was charged with obstructing governmental operations and resisting arrest. He was taken to a medical facility with serious injuries.

Why did cops even try to "engage" Wilkerson? Walking behind a business late at night might look suspicious to some -- especially if the person walking is black -- but was Wilkerson doing anything unlawful? If he was walking through a parking area, that likely is considered "open to the public" under the law, so perhaps he was not even trespassing. The charges against him -- obstructing governmental operations and resisting arrest -- make it appear the cops had no predicate charge against him; they couldn't even make one up.

Both of these charges usually piggyback on some larger, predicate offense. For example, if you are charged with burglary or theft and run from cops, you might get hit with resisting arrest, along with the more serious charge. But there appears to be no serious charge here. Based on what we know now, there should not have been a "governmental operation" involving Wilkerson; his only apparent offense was "walking while black." And the cops apparently had no grounds to arrest him, so he could not have been resisting under the law. There is no indication from the al.com article that Wilkerson had a gun in his waistband. Did he get beaten because he hitched up his pants or tried to adjust his belt?

Here is the most important question for now: Was the arrest lawful? Was there even probable cause to believe Wilkerson had committed a crime? Under Alabama law, any use of force in an illegal arrest is unlawful -- and an officer has no authority to use force. From a case styled Jackson v. Sauls, 206 F. 3d 1156 (11th Circ., 2000):

" . . . if a stop or arrest is illegal, then there is no basis for any threat or any use of force, and an excessive force claim would always arise but only collaterally from the illegal stop or arrest claim."

As for federal charges, those would come under 18 U.S.C. 242 (deprivation of rights under color of law), and that could spell big trouble for the cops who beat Wilkerson. They could face up to 10 years in federal prison, and depending on the circumstances, punishment might become even more severe than that. The statute reads in part:

Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both . . . 

If a court finds the cops tried to kill Wilkerson -- and the photo above suggests that might have been the case -- the cops' problems grow exponentially. From the statute:

. . . and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.

Based on what we know at the moment, the Troy cops could face up to 10 years in federal prison -- and that could expand to life in prison or even the death penalty. Was it really a wise move to "engage" KeAndre Wilkerson because he was walking behind a building?

84 comments:

Anonymous said...

How is this not assault or attempted murder?

Anonymous said...

It will be interesting to learn the race of the cops involved.

Anonymous said...

I'm betting the kid didn't reach into his waistband. He might have cussed them, and that's probably why they beat him within an inch of his life.

Anonymous said...

According to the Troy newspaper, cops are begging the public not to riot:


http://www.troymessenger.com/2017/12/27/officials-call-for-calm-as-alea-investigates/

legalschnauzer said...

@11:43 --

Thanks for sharing the Troy Messenger story. This jumped out at me:


“In order to protect the juvenile involved and the integrity of the investigation, no additional information will be released by SBI until this investigation is closed,” he said. “The completed investigation will be turned over to Pike County District Attorney Tom Anderson for presentation to a grand jury.”

He did not confirm whether footage from police body cameras captured the incident.

“We will be analyzing all available evidence through the course of this investigation, whether it be physical, digital or analog,” Carpenter said. “I cannot speak as to what types of evidence we have reviewed at this stage of the investigation.”

Anonymous said...

The Troy Messenger article has details about the incident:


The incident began shortly before midnight Dec. 23, when officers on patrol spotted a 17-year-old male walking from behind a business in the area of downtown Troy. According to a statement from Police Chief Randall Barr, the teen fled on foot when approached by the officers.

“After a lengthy foot pursuit, officers were able to apprehend the suspect on Madison Street but he resisted arrest and refused to comply with commands from the officers to place his hands behind his back,” Barr said, adding that the juvenile continued to struggle with officers.

“(He) kept reaching toward his waistband as if he was attempting to access a weapon; all while repeatedly ignoring officers’ commands to stop resisting and give them his hands,” Barr said. “Due to the subject’s actions and failure to comply with officers’ commands, officers had to use physical force to affect the arrest. The force used was reasonable and necessary.”

Anonymous said...

The police chief is lying in that quote above. No way that amount of force was "reasonable and necessary."

B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T

Anonymous said...

It's a little early to accuse the officers of attempted murder. It is actually still possible the young man, who is not charged with anything unrelated to his choice to flee and struggle, did cause the situation to be escalated because of his own behavior. The mother wrote on facebook that her son was beaten while handcuffed, but at this time the police report is that he not only fled against instruction, but refused to put his hands behind his back, struggled and resisted, and reached for his waistband as if to retrieve a weapon.

No weapon was discovered on his person after arrest, but a weapon was later found in the path the young man had taken when he fled, and it's now in evidence for further processing.

If police are not lying (and they might be lying) it may be the use of force was completely justified.

Do you happen to know if this police agency wears cameras and/or microphones as a matter of routine? You make no mention of any video evidence to support either of the accounts.

Police do have a right to stop and detain suspicious persons, and anyone skulking our from behind a closed business, in the dark, close to midnight, who sees police and flees, would draw reasonable suspicion.

Anonymous said...

Hah! The mayor is pleading for calm, while the police chief says the force used was "reasonable and necessary."

Statements like that from the chief are not a good way to keep the peace.

Anonymous said...

A blow with a nightstick to gain compliance with a struggling suspect can cause that kind of facial injury.

It matters more if they had him subdued with handcuffs and hit him anyway. "Punishment" blows are clearly criminal. But it's not clear that he was struck after he was subdued, like the case below.

Anonymous said...

Incredibly stupid statement from the police chief. He's siding with his own thugs, so when the evidence comes out that they committed crimes, he's going to go down with them.

That stupid statement will cost him his job, and I hope it does.

Anonymous said...

The police chief is full of the same horse manure that was placed on that guy's doorstep in California. The chief says, "Officers had to use physical force to affect the arrest."

Arrest for what, MoFo? The cops' own charges show the kid didn't do anything to be arrested for.

legalschnauzer said...

@11:54 --

You might check the comment at 11:45. I believe that's all that is known about the camera question at this point.

A weapon was found near the path the kid ran? I haven't seen that reported in the press.

Anonymous said...

I hope protesters riot and burn the effing town down.

This crap isn't going to stop until the public makes it clear they will not tolerate it any longer.

Anonymous said...

A sad day indeed when we need protections from the very ones who have been entrusted with the duty to protect & serve. Years ago I did business "legal business" in a low income area. Most of my customers paid in cash. My biggest fear was being stopped by law enforcement and having the hell beat out of me, then all my cash money confiscated. Thugs I could deal with, but how to you deal with thugs who have the legal right to kill and steal? A sad day indeed.

legalschnauzer said...

@11:54 --

The police right to "stop and detain" a suspicious person is more complicated than it might seem. It's called a "Terry Stop" for the SCOTUS case Terry v. Ohio. Here are details:

"A stop-and-frisk refers to a brief non-intrusive police stop of a suspect. The Fourth Amendment requires that before stopping the suspect, the police must have a reasonable suspicion that a crime has been, is being, or is about to be committed by the suspect. If the police reasonably suspect that the suspect is armed and dangerous, the police may frisk the suspect, meaning that the police will give a quick pat-down of the suspect's outer clothing. The frisk is also called a Terry Stop, derived from the Supreme Court case Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968). Terry held that a stop-and-frisk must comply with the Fourth Amendment, meaning that the stop-and-frisk cannot be unreasonable. According to the Terry court, a reasonable stop-and-frisk is one "in which a reasonably prudent officer is warranted in the circumstances of a given case in believing that his safety or that of others is endangered, he may make a reasonable search for weapons of the person believed by him to be armed and dangerous."

Based on press reports so far, I don't see how the cops had a a reasonable suspicion that a crime has been, is being, or is about to be committed by the suspect.

Here is a key element:

According to the Terry court, a reasonable stop-and-frisk is one "in which a reasonably prudent officer is warranted in the circumstances of a given case in believing that his safety or that of others is endangered, he may make a reasonable search for weapons of the person believed by him to be armed and dangerous."

Was Wilkerson endangering anyone's safety by walking behind a building? At the time cops "engaged" him, did they have reason to believe he was armed and dangerous? The answer to both questions, for now, seems to be no.

legalschnauzer said...

Very well stated, @12:20. Like you, I will take my chances with a street thug. I've never had one hurt or harass me yet. But I have been hurt, beaten, and harassed by cops, and so has my wife. I would rather deal with a street thug than a police thug any day.

Anonymous said...

If I'm the mayor, I fire that a-hole police chief ASAP.

Anonymous said...

Stop and frisk is a big issue in NYC right now, and naturally, Trump attacked the judge who declared the NYPD's actions were unconstitutional.


https://www.democracynow.org/2017/12/27/meet_the_federal_judge_trump_attacked

Anonymous said...

I see a bright future for these cops. Hopefully, they will get gang raped by a bunch of brothas at the Graybar Hotel.

And brothas say, "Hey, we had reasonable suspicion that you needed to be 'frisked.' So we 'frisked' you."

Anonymous said...

"Walking while black." That's a good one, LS. Sadly, it's probably true.

Anonymous said...

Wonder if the cops got a call about a suspicious person in the area. If so, that might have given them reasonable suspicion to stop this kid. I can't think of anything that gave them grounds to beat the hell out of him.

Anonymous said...

Oh, I'm sure Artur Davis will be speaking out loud and clear about this injustice. Hah!!

legalschnauzer said...

According to blogger Gerald Jackson, one of the Troy officers involved in Wilkerson beating was Brandon Hicks:


We have identified the Police Officer that maliciously beat 17-year-old Ulysses “Fatdaddy” Wilkerson nearly to death when he ran from #TroyAlabamaPolice in fear, after their attempt to illegally stop him Saturday, December 23, 2017.

Officer Brandon Hicks is the police officer that beat Wilkerson after he refused to be illegally arrested by Troy Police.

Wilkerson was walking from behind a business in downtown Troy, when the officer(s) with Troy, Alabama Police exited their vehicles to stop him without “probable or reasonable cause.” He was racially profiled because of his skin color, the time it was, and the direction he was walking from to his destination.

There are no reports of a break-in at or near the business he was walking from behind, neither a suspicious person report, any type of report or call that would suspect police to stop him.

Officials in Troy told me that Wilkerson was reaching towards his waist as if he was trying to access a weapon and my response to the officials was, when have you known a black man to reach for what officers would think is a gun and they not kill him?

They then proceeded to tell me that a gun was later found on the path they chased Wilkerson on.

Wilkerson never had a weapon on him the moment they beat him. That's why they did not shoot and kill Wilkerson. Neither was Wilkerson charged with possession of a firearm.

Officer Hicks and other officers involved wanted to give Wilkerson a lesson for running and resisting an illegal arrest.

Please note that the only charges Wilkerson is charged with are “Obstruction governmental operations and resisting arrest. None which would indicate police right or reasoning to stop Wilkerson initially.

Mayor Jason Reeves you should terminate Officer Brandon Hicks and release the footage of Wilkerson's beating by your Police Department immediately.

Wilkerson’s family tells me that he is home, swelling on his face has gone down a little and that he is scheduled to have surgery in the oncoming weeks.

A JusticeForFatDaddy protest will be held Saturday, December 30 at 11:00 A.M.in front of Troy Police Department located at 300 East Elm Street.

Shaun King Reverend Al Sharpton Nancy Grace We Want Justice News In Onslow NAACP

#JusticeForFatDaddy

legalschnauzer said...

Here is Gerald Jackson's Facebook page:


https://www.facebook.com/TheOfficialGeraldJackson?hc_ref=ARQOY0guq3fyhdLQntJRQ652qS2iwNU0c6YQSU-llH0fUZ57uSW2pmK56cxqmgHNprc&fref=nf&pnref=story

Anonymous said...

Here is a message for the mayor of Troy: If you want calm, try hiring a competent police chief, who can hire and train competent officers, who respect the constitution.

Anonymous said...

Burn, Troy, Burn!!!

Anonymous said...

Police chief's next job will involve asking, "Do you want fries with that?"

Steve said...

"No weapon was discovered on his person after the arrest, but a weapon was later found in the path the young man had taken when he fled, and it's now in evidence for further processing."

So just to be clear can the police explain why the boy would be reaching for a "weapon in his waistband" that the boy knew wasn't there as they now claim he disposed of it earlier? If they really believed he had a weapon they would have shot him without hesitation.

legalschnauzer said...

Steve:

All good points and questions. Liars often have a hard time keeping up with their lies, especially when they are cops. I'm not sure if the part about Wilkerson disposing of a gun is true or not. Don't think I've seen that in any news accounts. It might have grown as a "fast fact" on social media; not sure. Of course, it wouldn't be beyond cops to plant a gun along the path Wilkerson ran, perhaps after they had finished beating him to hell and realized they had a problem on their hands and needed to create an excuse.

Here in a few days, I will be publishing a post about cops who have been found guilty in federal civil-rights cases over past six months. Quite a few of the cases involve charges of falsifying police reports. That kind of dishonesty seems to come with the territory in the modern U.S. police state.

Anonymous said...

Interesting item from Troy Messenger article. Says cops waited 12 hours to release a statement about the incident:

While discussing the incident at the council’s work session Tuesday, councilmember Wanda Moultry, District 5, called for transparency from the city moving forward in similar situations. Troy Police did not release a statement on the incident for more than 12 hours after the arrest was made and photos of the teen were posted on social media.

“We need to be coming forth first when there is any abuse against anyone,” Moultry said. “We need to be proactive and let the citizens know.”

Anonymous said...

Sorry but I disagree. Let all the details come out. What kind of record does this kid have ? What is he doing out that late at night behind a business ? Why did he run from the cops ? Lots of questions. I'm not a policeman but they put their life on the line every day against monsters in sheeps clothing. Yes there are bad cops, but most of them are good people. Yes there are bad journalist, but most of them are good people. Give it some time for the facts to bubble up.

legalschnauzer said...

@5:25 --

Sure, all any of us can do is let the process play out. My goal with this post is to show how serious this could be the cops, especially if it becomes a criminal matter under federal civi-right law. You raise a lot of questions that regular folks ask. But I'm not sure they all apply, under the law. For example, his record (if any) shouldn't matter; if he was doing nothing unlawful behind the building, that shouldn't matter; running from the cops was not a great idea, but probably has limited importance.

Key question: Did cops have reasonable suspicion to detain him? I'd say that's less than 50/50 now, given that the charges are so weak. As for justifying the force used, I think that's going to be hard to do, particularly if they had no grounds to arrest him or even detain him. Right now, I don't see that they had any offense to arrest him for.

Anonymous said...

This was wrong. This young man had a right to walk where ever he chose. The police is doing all of this because they think that they can get away with anything. If this had been a white kid, would this have happened? No, it would not have. Of course, this young kid was afraid when he was stopped by the police in Troy, AL; Jim Crowe's country. If they once had thought that he was reaching for a gun, they would have shot him without thinking once, but they knew he was not. If he reached for his waist band, it was probably to pull his pants up. Because we have a racial President don't give tthe police or anybody the right to be suspicious of our black children. Why did they feel the need to beat him brutal to the point of seriously causing him so much trauma? If they felt like for whatever reason they needed backup, it would not have taken but 2 minutes or less to get back up because the Police station was a minute or two away. They say they found a gun in his path from where he begin to start running, that is a lie. They probably planted a gun if that is true and put his hand prints on it because he was unconscious and not aware of what they were doing. Our black children demands "Justice" just like any other citizen. I have a son and I know this is wrong. Did they see him breaking into the building? NO NO! I hope this cop gets what he deserves and by chance if he gets away with this here on earth; I know a MAN that sits High and observes everyone and everything. His name is JESUS and this cop will get what he deserves whether it is here on earth or on Judgement Day! So, whomever is lying for this police will riot in the PITS of HELL and whoever helps try to cover this brutality up. TROY, AL you just made WORLD NEWS for being impartial to our BLACK children or BLACK peoples for no other reason but just being LOW DOWN and RACIAL! I want you to know that our BLACK LEADERS all over the WORLD knows about THIS.

e.a.f. said...

From the media reports I have seen regarding similar cases, in the U.S.A., the only thing which was "offensive" in the eyes of these police officers was an African American young male out walking on public property. From all information we have seen on the news, in the U.S.A., that entitled the police to kill, injure, beat, abuse, etc.. It may not be done to white wealth males or females.

Will the police be arrested, charged, placed on a leave of absence, found guilty of anything? Based on past evidence, I'd suggest no. They will find something to say it was justified. Now if this was some wealthy son of a white family and he was beaten to this extent, the police would have already been fired, charged, etc.

The police officers, in my opinion, ought to be charged with assault with intent to cause bodily harm. if the young man dies, it would in Canada qualify for a charge of second degree murder.

This has been going on in the U.S.A. for as long as the country has existed. Nothing is going to change because racism runs deep in the U.S.A. The current President and his allies have done nothing to improve the situation. In 300 yrs. if the world and the U.S.A. still exist, this will still be going on. Not all the rioting in the world will change any of this. all that will happen is they will turn the armed forces on the rioters, or what is called the national state guards. I remember Kent State well. I've watched all the American "race riots", nothing has changed. Now if the riots were to take place in the white end of town, perhaps things might change but I would suggest, that would turn into a shooting war.

In B.C., Canada the province has an independent group which investigates all officer involved violence, car accidents, etc. Yes, Canadian police officers have shot, beaten, tazered people, and they have died. However, many of those were white and mentally ill. That seems to be our problem, not dealing effectively with mentally ill people who come into contact with the police. Do we have racism, you bet. Its just the police in Canada have a better understanding of what would happen, if they did kill citizens. You could loose your job. You could go to jail. Your life is not as nice as it once was, because everyone knows what you did and most people don't approve. You'd as a min. have to move. In the U.S.A. they don't even have to move.

Perhaps one of the major differences is Canadian police forces have a choice of who they hire. In Vancouver, B.C. officers after 3 years earn $100K a year. They start at $70K a year. No one wants to loose a job like that. The RCMP, the national police force, pays less by approx. $20K a year. Their officers are more prone to violence, in my opinion.

Anonymous said...

They had grounds to detain him. Profiling isn't illegal, and a person skulking around a closed business at a late hour is likely to be stopped and questioned no matter his race. Flight is a signal of guilt (while not proof of guilt) and is cause enough to pursue.
They had a right to stop him, and to detain him and to use force to accomplish this if the subject makes it necessary. That they had cause or a right to inflict facial fractures with a baton is another issue altogether. If he was already handcuffed and on the ground, there is nothing to justify it.

The young man may or may not have been carrying the handgun found in the path of his flight. I readily concede it may have no connection or that police have planted weapons before and could do it again. But if that really was the young man's handgun, charges related to it may t follow, and it makes the youths reaching for a gun (that he might not have realized he dropped) takes on more significance...in that light the reasonableness of subduing the subject with force is not so doubtful.

If the subject has a juvenile record full of break-ins, robberies, or other crimes, I see it as more probable he was not just walking about the back of a closed business in the middle of the night, which is an unusual thing for anyone to do. It might also turn out that the business is a common target for break-ins or that there have been previous attempts at break in.

So much is unknown. Jumping to conclusions is unjust to both sides at this time.

Anonymous said...

Get out of here with the white kid crap! I see it happen with people of all color. I've had it happen with friends of all color including myself though I've never been beaten. I've seen cops get pissed and do things they had no right doing bi t in most cases it had absolutely nothing to do with race. It's high time we stop with the race b.s... because in most cases that's not even the case unless you watch your everyday lying, fake news media outlets who really dont care at all about a black person, its their overall agenda is what matters most to them. Now personally speaking on this matter I don't see where they were justified at all in stopping or detaining this young boy and even if they were justified in stopping him there was no justification in the excessive force used against him! Honestly I dont think their stories of the account can hold water. Regardless black, white, Brown, Yellow, there's no reason for this especially when you have multiple officers on the scene. That's why we have a justice system "it's not perfect but it's one of the best we have in the world today" therefore we need to allow this process to take place and pray justice will be served rather than being like the dumb ass that stated in a comment above by saying "burn Troy burn" what idiots we have in the world today and hopefully if one sets fire to Troy they will be shot on spot by the owner of the business!!! Take care, God bless, and may love ,patience an peace abound within us all!

legalschnauzer said...

@10:15 --

Yes, police violence happens across color lines. My wife and I are white, and we both have been beaten and wrongfully arrested by police. That's been well detailed at this blog. But it's a fact that blacks are more likely than whites to be targeted by police and to be killed by police. From a Washington Post study:

According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.

legalschnauzer said...

@10:15 --

From a CNN report . . .

Black men are nearly three times as likely to be killed by legal intervention than white men, according to the study, which was published in the American Journal of Public Health on Tuesday. American Indians or Alaska Natives also are nearly three times as likely and Hispanic men are nearly twice as likely, the study suggests.
"It affirms that this disparity exists," said Dr. James Buehler, clinical professor of health management and policy at Drexel University in Philadelphia, who authored the study.
"My study is a reminder that there are, indeed, substantial disparities in the rates of legal intervention deaths, and that ongoing attention to the underlying reasons for this disparity is warranted," he said.

legalschnauzer said...

@8:43 -- A few points:

(1) Racial profiling most definitely is not legal: https://www.aclu.org/issues/racial-justice/race-and-criminal-justice/racial-profiling

(2) Based on what we know now, the police did not have grounds to detain Wilkerson. From Terry v. Ohio: "if the police officer has a reasonable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime and has a reasonable belief that the person "may be armed and presently dangerous." These cops had no grounds for suspicion on any of these levels.

(3) Can anyone cite a news article that says a gun was found along the path? I haven't seen it. Starting to sound like an urban myth.

(4) Agree that much is not known. Agree that this clearly is an excessive force case. Disagree, for now, that cops had grounds to stop and detain.

legalschnauzer said...

e.a.f. --

Thanks for info about cop salaries and issue of mental illness/cop interaction in Canada.

I'm going to be interested to see if this becomes a federal civil-rights criminal case. That's probably the road it should be headed down, and right now, I don't see where the cops have a defense.

legalschnauzer said...

The info about a gun being found on the path came from a report at WSFA in Montgomery:

http://www.wsfa.com/story/37136149/police-teen-resisted-arrest-led-to-use-of-physical-force


Police say officers returned to the area and the path the teen ran and found a handgun lying on the ground. It was placed into evidence for further processing.

Based on facts we know now, this has nothing to do with whether cops had grounds to detain Wilkerson or whether their use of force was justified.

Anonymous said...

This article says Wilkerson needed emergency surgery at UAB for facial fractures:

https://www.sott.net/article/372362-Teen-beaten-so-severely-by-cops-he-needed-emergency-surgery-Mom-says-beating-took-place-while-he-was-handcuffed

Think I read somewhere else that doctors were waiting for swelling to decrease before beginning procedure, so not sure if surgery has happened yet or not.

Anonymous said...

A protest is planned for 11 a.m. Saturday in Troy:


http://www.troymessenger.com/2017/12/28/protest-organizers-seek-answers-to-tpds-use-of-force-on-teen/

Anonymous said...

They are white

Anonymous said...

Let it all bubble to the top before we make a decision. None of us know at this point. Snauzer, your situation was completely different. Cops come to your house kick the door in and hurt your wife. Middle age woman couldn't offer much physical resistance to a male cop. Completely different story with a 17 year old kid hanging out late at night on someone else's property Runs when the cops pull up. Aint got nothing to do with color. He fights with them when they catch him. Wish they had shot him with a stun gun when they caught instead of the baton, but may not have had one. We don't know. Everybodys got an opinion on what happened, but WE don't know at this point. My guess ( and only a guess ) the kids got a record, cops know who he is, may have had an altercation with cops before. Lots of questions unanswered at this time. Give it time.

legalschnauzer said...

@7:43 --

Agreed, it will have to bubble to top. One point of uncertainty: I believe I've read in one or more news reports that Wilkerson was coming out from behind a business and was on public property. That he wasn't charged with trespass, indicates he was on public property.

Anonymous said...

you're a journalist? just because someone isn't charged, doesn't mean they were on public property

Anonymous said...

you were there? you should contact the fbi.

Anonymous said...

well duh. i'm white. when i get pulled over, even if the cop is a jerk, i don't become a beligerant dick like so many blacks become. or are you an ostrich?

legalschnauzer said...

@3:31 --

You make race-based generalizations much? I've been beaten by a cop inside my own home, and no warrant ever has been shown (and it was a 100 percent civil matter). My wife was beaten and had her arm broken. We are white, and neither of us was belligerent. Try living in our shoes for a while, and your view might change.

legalschnauzer said...

@3:25 --

If he wasn't charged with trespassing then, as a matter of law and public record, he was on public property. Either that, or they are bad cops.

legalschnauzer said...

Some big-time civil-rights attorneys have entered the picture, on behalf of the Wilkerson family:


http://www.troymessenger.com/2017/12/29/national-civil-rights-attorneys-seek-answers-for-family-of-ulysses-wilkerson/

Anonymous said...

Charges may follow, and if they don't it doesn't mean the subject in this case was necessarily on, or only on, public property. If he was in a public through way or side walk, they report he was sent coming out from behind a local closed business at a very late hour, and he ran when spotted.

legalschnauzer said...

@12:31 --

Charges may follow, and the cow may jump over the moon. Trespassing charges have not been brought, so for now, it's not an issue. Reports state cops caught up with Wilkerson on Madison Street, so he clearly was on public property for some (or all) of the time.

Anonymous said...

Troy Messenger article says body cam footage does exist --


District Attorney Tom Anderson confirmed Thursday that body cam footage of the incident does exist.

“I know there is some body cam video and audio as well,” Anderson said. “I only know of one officer that was directly involved that did not have body cam video.”

Anonymous said...

There are many suspected cases in that area just Google James Bailey and that's one that need a justice department investigation he was beaten after arrest then charged with a murder by dirty cops.. And the tax payers settlement was done in federal court

Anonymous said...

I see that you quoted Terry v. Ohio when it doesn't really apply here. "Detentions" short of arrest do not require probable cause. Such temporary detentions require only "reasonable suspicion." "Reasonable suspicion" means specific facts which would lead a reasonable person to believe criminal activity was at hand and further investigation was required.

Reasonable suspicion is evaluated using the "reasonable person" or "reasonable officer" standard, in which said person in the same circumstances could reasonably suspect a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity; it depends upon the totality of circumstances, and can result from a combination of particular facts, even if each is individually innocuous.

It is completely reasonable to believe that someone behind a closed business, late at night and runs from police, has committed or was about to commit a crime. The officers have every right to identify that subject. It makes more sense to identify him and then further investigate the potential crime. If they know who was there and then find out no crime actually occurred then thee is no harm. If they let the subject go and then find out a burglary had occurred, how would you explain to the business owner that you watched the offender run away without attempting to identify him.

As for your reference to Terry v. Ohio, the fact that you can detain someone with reasonable suspicion does not give you the right to pat down for weapons. If, during a detention, the officer has reason to believe the person is armed, they can pat his outer clothes. You see a pat down during detention is a higher level of invasion than just the detention.

legalschnauzer said...

If you look at my 12/27 quote @12:21, you will see I've written pretty much exactly what you've written.

In my view, the issue isn't what makes sense re: identifying Wilkerson, etc. It's what the law allows. I don't believe there was reasonable suspicion of a crime being committed and certainly no apparent reason for the cops to believe their safety was an issue. The prudent thing would have been to leave him alone.

They could have ID'd him by following him until he got to his home and then noting the address and who is listed in public records as living there. I also disagree as to harm. I believe there is harm when you detain people for no reason, not only to the individual but to the constitution and our right not to live in a police state.

I suspect the cops will have plenty of time to think about all of this when they are serving 10 years or more in a federal prison.

Anonymous said...

If the PO says STOP you STOP !!! If you run they will chase your ass and tackle you to the ground... And that's what it looks like happened in this case. He got tackled to the ground (or concrete) which would leave a person looking like this if he hit face first when he was tackled.It don't make a damn what color you are. If you make a officer think he maybe going to get shot you are asking for trouble. When a officer is in fear for his life they have the right to do what is necessary to apprehend the person. POINT BLANK IT'S THE KIDS FAULT FOR RUNNING STOP BLAMING EVERYTHING ON RACE. TRUTH IS Y'ALL NEED TO GET OVER SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO THAT THE WHITES THAT ARE HERE NOW HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH !!! IF IT WAS MY WHITE ASS THAT RAN I WOULD'VE EXPECTED THE SAME THING TO HAPPEN TO ME !!! SO GET OVER IT AND DON'T RUN FROM THE POLICE !!!

legalschnauzer said...

@10:20 --

Can you cite any law that says it's OK for cops to tell you to stop when they have no grounds to tell you to stop? Do a little research on that one and get back to me.

Anonymous said...

Is it possible this kid ducked behind a building to take a leak, only to come back out front to find cops waiting on him? Hell, I would run, too.

Anonymous said...

Duh he ran, that's what reason they had to tell him to stop. You must be in this to try and make money or you just hate the police. But I bet they would be the first ones you call when you need help.

Anonymous said...

You might wanna do some research on, If a PO has probable cause he can tell you to stop. In this case the cause was he was out late at night coming from behind a closed business. Now you need to do you're research on that.

legalschnauzer said...

@11:31 --

Someone walking out from behind a business at a certain hour equals reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed? Since when? Based on what law? I figured you wouldn't be able to conduct any research, so your limp-wristed reply is no surprise. As for my research, I've already cited it at Terry v. Ohio above.

legalschnauzer said...

Duh, he ran when cops tried to detain him with no grounds for doing so.

Is constitutional law taught in our schools anymore? Apparently not.

Or maybe it's that members of the New Confederacy want to make up their own laws to benefit white people -- and the hell with the U.S. Constitution.

Why don't you set up your calendar so you an go visit these cops when they are in federal prison for about 10 years. Of course, corrupt judges might predict them, but under the law, they stand a good chance of prison time.

Anonymous said...

It has been widely publicized regarding the gun that was found. It us being processed to see if it's associated with the boy, i.e., fingerprints.

Anonymous said...

I've read two different accounts of how it started. One report states they saw him come from behind a closed building at almost midnight. When Wilkerson saw them he ran. That gives cops reasonable suspicion. Another account says the cops stopped to engage him and he fled. That's reasonable suspicion. We don't know why the cops chose to stop and engage him. Maybe they wanted go make sure he was ok or needed help, but the boy fled. It's also reasonable to be suspicious seeing anyone walked from behind a closed building at midnight. As a citizen, if I saw that, if call 911 and report it also.

One other thing bothers me. I've read that the parents don't know what happened 'other than what they've read in the media's! Why hasn't her son told her what happened? The parents are demanding body cam be released and faulting the police for not answering their questions. Thus shouldn't be one-sided. We want his side also. Regardless, I pray the truth comes out and justice is served whether it's the cops or the boy.

Anonymous said...

Here is a video that shows how to correctly deal with police. Technically, the kids committed no crime, but there was reasonable suspicion. They acted correctly, were identified and determined that they could leave. No running, no fight, no injury.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itDGH9vhd-k

Anonymous said...

@10:50 What kind of person just walks behind a building to take a leak and then freaks out about it. If he felt it was ok to do it, why run? Unless he knew that was illegal. There are plenty of places to use the restroom, like at a convenience store that is open for business. By the way, the law he violated by taking a leak behind a business in Alabama would be public lewdness.

Anonymous said...

I am a White Male living so far North you would think I lived in Canada. But I do not. I am Ashamed to be an American at this time In my life. The Government taking over everything from your Food to your internet.
Now today is the Second time I heard them say Someone was Reaching for Their Waist Band and bad things happened, Now I believe this Reaching for the "waste-band" is going to be the Norm for hurting and KILLING Americans. I never had the chance to finish High School, But even a uneducated White male like me can see what is, and has been happening. This Beating and the Swatting Killing is terrible. If I knew there were cops standing behind me while I was going to see what happened when they Shot an innocent man I would turn the gun on myself after killing someone innocent, who was in their home causing no problem. Now I am sure this Poor young Man was beaten to within inches of his life because the cops Could and get away with it. This happened under other Presidents as well, But I believe DJT is going to cause this to become bad as it has ever been. Like I said I am a old white male that had very little interaction with, Blacks,Mexicans,And other Great People that contribute to our Society.
I have not been pulled over by the cops in 30 years if not more. I was thinking of making a video series by doing what Downey Jr, did in that Crazy movie playing a Black man just to see how often I get pulled over way up here in the North. Posting it to social Media and show the world how bad this is, but I don't think that will help, because it seems to have Blinded most people and this is shame. When I see that poor boy Beat to shit to within a inch of his life makes me sick. I pray to God that this young man get over this horrific happening.
Any cop that Shoots Kills or Mames any human without being in danger of being killed themselves should lose his job Period. There's no reason for this NONE. Our cops are coming from the Military and that is where we go wrong. People in the mIlitary are trained to Kill their enemy, don't get me wrong good cops are out here, but the bad ones take that off the table. The Blue Code keeps good cops from stopping bad ones and it should be the the reverse.

I fear we are head for a Civil War.
I fear we have lost our ability to Keep Peace about.
I fear Trump is going to make this 10 times worse.
I also Hope We as a People can come together at some point and stop all this terrible stuff, I can stand with any man or woman to fight for what is right. By the time Trump is done with his destruction of the Poor and MIddle class there will be nothing left unless we the People stand up and keep fighting.

God Bless Us all and my Prayers go out to these VICTIMS.....

Anonymous said...

The cops Use the So Called TERRY STOP to Unjustly pull people over and then put them through the ringer Period, Just because the Supreme Court of the United States Made it a law surely doesn't mean it's right............
what happened to being Free in the U.S.?
What happened to being at home in YOUR OWN HOME and not being Shot ?
Where is our innocents before Guilt ?
I would love to make an APP that when this is happening for every phone in that area to get a message telling people to go and watch, Take Video and Stand up for Innocent Americans being mistreated by the law........... I often wonder how these laws get passed without the people knowing about how laws are being made to hurt American's not help them. One cop gets killed in a situation like that they make a new Law. Can someone please tell me why does that not work the same for just normal people. instead they say or make up a point to justify there beating or killing and American.

Anonymous said...

Good article about today's protests in Troy:


http://www.troymessenger.com/2017/12/30/protestors-hold-rally-seeking-answers-for-teens-family/

Anonymous said...

This is my favorite part: Protesters want release of video and answers from cops by Friday or . . .


Kenneth Glasgow, a rally organizer who had previously advocated for the family, delivered an ultimatum to Troy officials on behalf of the protestors. He demanded police make public video footage of the arrest and take disciplinary action against the officers involved in the incident, with many other speakers and protestors calling for the firing and arrest of at least one officer. The officer involved in the incident has been placed on leave, according to Mayor Jason Reeves.

Glasgow said if the family does not have answers by Friday he would call a “national rally” in Troy and block U.S. Highway 231.

“The way to avoid that is to just give the family the answers they’re looking for,” Glasgow said.

Anonymous said...

These cops are so toast. Their racism came back to bite them in the buttocks.

Anonymous said...

I like this part, too . . .


At the center of the demands is reported body camera footage of the incident. District Attorney Tom Anderson confirmed Friday that there is both audio and video recording of the incident. “I only know of one officer that was directly involved that did not have body cam video,” Anderson said. He declined to comment further until the investigation is complete.

Anonymous said...

If the footage made the cops look good, it probably would have already been released. That it's still under wraps tells me it makes the cops look very bad, very bad.

Welp, headin' down the road to a Pound Me in the Ass Prison!

Anonymous said...

Coppers gonna run into some unhappy brothas at the Big House. Ouch!

Anonymous said...

So if they don't get their way by Friday, they are going to break the law and close a road. I hope they all get charged with disorderly conduct and go to jail themselves.

e.a.f. said...

Having read some of this comments, its appalling. The police don't have a reason to stop a person walking done the street, minding their own business. It is beyond belief that that is legal in the U.S.A. and standard practise. Police ought to have better things to do. It would appear American police just decide to stop people and demand I.D., etc. What gives with the police?

We have now had news reports in Canada, that the young man was kicked in the face by one of the officers.

it was interesting watching a documentary last night regarding the L.A. riots following the Rodney King verdict. I still can't believe the police got off. I've seen that video so often, and yet it still boggles the mind. What is even scarier is that this behaviour still continues. They may call the U.S.A. the home of the free and the brave, but to me its just not that free and as to brave, the American police look like a bunch of cowards.

In a country where the police have such wide ranging powers to beat, injure, pull over, kick, etc; the U.S.A. is one country not on my list of countries to visit. Its too dangerous and its not the citizens I'm concerned about, its the police and I'm not the only one. some of my friends consider Hawaii about the safest place in the U.S.A. to visit and Vegas.

e.a.f. said...

Just had my laugh of the week. The Daily Beast is reporting on Trump"s tweets regarding the protests in Iran. Trump actually tweeted the U.S.A. would be watching for human rights violations. Gee, message to idiot Trump: fix the human rights violations in the U.S.A. starting with the beating and killing of people of colour. Oh, right that doesn't matter to the dolt, named Trump. Iran certainly has human rights violations, however, the U.S.A. has them also, and the Iranian ones are based on politics, the American human rights violations are based on colour and wealth. The U.S.A can no longer hold itself up as some sort of moral authority. Its right up their with Turkey, Russia, N. Korea. Beatings such as outlined in this post are violations of Human Rights. You don't see this in civilized countries, just in countries like Russia and the U.S.A. Wonder when Trump will pull a Putin and decide only he can decide who runs for President.

legalschnauzer said...

e.a.f. --

Boy, that is a laugh. The notion of Trump having any moral authority is a joke. Hell, he isn't even president, in truth, so he ought to keep that famous yap shut. I appreciate what Mueller is trying to do, but it's taking too long, and I suspect his investigation will eventually be a flop.

On human rights, think of how much mine and Carol's are worth. I've been thrown in jail, beaten in my own home, because of journalism. Carol's been beaten, had an arm broken, and been arrested/jailed twice -- for being married to a blogger. And I suspect bipartisan political/legal thugs -- Jeff Sessions, Rob Riley, Doug Jones, Bill Pryor, Luther Strange -- are behind that, not to mention the theft of our home.

legalschnauzer said...

e.a.f. at 6:43 --

I let quite a few comments go, ones I normally would reject, just to illustrate the kind of vile racism that exists in the USA here in late 2017. Stopping people without reasonable suspicion for the cops is illegal, but many Mericans think having black skin equals reasonable suspicion. A lot of cops think the same way. There are almost 500 comments on the al.com story about the Wilkerson beating, and many of them will make you want to puke. Having Trump in the White House for about a year, I think, has brought the racists raging out of the closets:

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/12/teenager_injured_during_arrest.html

It's still not clear about facial fractures Wilkerson has, but I have little doubt that kicks to the face were involved, probably baton to the eye socket, too.

The cops should get 10 years or more in federal prison. Will be interesting to see if that happens, if they get any punishment at all.

Right now, US is little more than an unusually prosperous third-world country. Trump tax cuts will make sure the prosperity dwindles to fewer and fewer people. We have a prejudiced, uneducated populace, which is why we have a jack-ass in the White House.

Thomas S. Bean said...

..."I've been thrown in jail, beaten in my own home, because of journalism. Carol's been beaten, had an arm broken, and been arrested/jailed twice -- for being married to a blogger."...

Note: That's a brief characterization of what has been done to you and your wife: we really don't know just how intrusive the program used against you is.

I suspect there is far more outrageous conduct using military surveillance-psychotronic technology. I suspect intrusive foot, vehicle, electronic, communication, and remote neural monitoring. There is a pattern and practice of violating civil rights that befalls "Targeted Individuals" who have complained about "Gang Stalking".

Most targets get educated over time and finally piece together all the bizarre bad things that have happened to them and suddenly realize the whole thing was orchestrated and well hidden.

You can corroborate vehicle surveillance by using a simple trick: drive out into the country on gravel roads on a weekday morning at 3:30 am. You should not see any headlights within miles of you. Living in a city is much different...but you should be able to enjoy some isolation on the roads of a city at odd hours when no extraneous traffic is moving.